Forum Discussion

Wim's avatar
Wim
Resourceful Rider
5 months ago

Is it worth returning an ebike/scooter to a dock?

This might be news to our NYC friends, but in Chicago you can leave an ebike/scooter just about anywhere.

Knowing whether returning an undocked ebike/scooter to a station is a net reward or not depends on how far away the dock is (X-axis, in minutes) and the points offered (Y-axis). I thought it would be interesting to make a chart for that:

Bike Angels points valued at $0.20/point (based on 150 pts reward $30 Lyft credit)

Red is bad (the ride fee is more than the reward), green is good, and yellow's kind of a wash. For ebikes it's easy to guess because reward is $0.20/pts and cost is approx $0.20/min. Scooters are more expensive so it's a bit tricky to calculate in your head, but aiming for 2x sounds good (e.g. if your trip is 2 minutes you should be looking for 4 pts).

divvy
  • ejholmberg's avatar
    ejholmberg
    Resourceful Rider
    4 months ago

    Thanks for putting this together, Wim! I've never thought through the math but visualizing it really helps.

    I decided to make matching charts for those of us with Divvy for Everyone pricing ($0.05/min for bikes and $0.10/min for scooters). Here's what I found:

     

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    Got it. Thanks for your help. Great chart.

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    So here's a situation where the BA can not help redistribute because of the current fee system in place.

    This scooter is surrounded by no-scooter zones. All the red areas are prohibited. If you try riding, the scooter will turn off. The only way out Is to ride it back down Randolph to Michigan Avenue.


    The map may look like there are roads all around, but it's all split level streets, and these roads are all inaccessible from where the scooter is located.

    If you take the scooter back on Randolph, the distance along with the Columbus Street and Michigan Avenue traffic lights, there's no way you're gonna make $$ within the allotted time frame from Wim's chart.

    Now, the scooter has been there a couple days. Let's see how long it stays there.

    There are situations, if Lyft would give us a break on the fees, BA could be more useful.

     

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    Thanks 

    Don't exactly understand ,  but thanks  

    Also...

    Distance or time?

    12pts = $2.40

    3pts = .60

    $2.40 = 12 minutes @ .20/min (fee+tax)

    .60 = 3 mins 

    In a 300pts day, I could "give up" as much as 23% of my total points moving eBikes 

    • Wim's avatar
      Wim
      Resourceful Rider
      5 months ago

      The "distance" (x-axis) is how many minutes away the station is - your expected time from unlock to dock. Trip duration. The app always rounds up your minutes, so even if you get there in 1m2s it still bills 2 mins.

      12 mins on an ebike would actually be $2.35 cos it's not just 12*$0.20, it's 12mins*$0.18/mins*1.09.

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    So... we can Bike Angels scooters also? That's not talked about 

    • Wim's avatar
      Wim
      Resourceful Rider
      5 months ago

      Yes, you can. I’m flabbergasted that you’ve never tried it- assuming that you’re JM475 on the leaderboards

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    Right. Scooters are not talked about here because "traditionally" this was a Citibike board and there are no scooters in NYC.

    Moving scooters never entered my mind until a couple days ago. It could be a play but already a big hit is taken out of the "profits" by moving eBikes, and as your chart shows, with scooters it will be worse. 

    I do the larger number for exercise, but I'd feel a bit like a fool "working for free"

    The bikes are more versatile and maneuverable, that helps reduce the time to the stations.

    Just thinking out loud 

    Thanks 

     

  • jm's avatar
    jm
    Hustlin' Helper
    5 months ago

    Wim, you opened my eyes to scooters. Something I've ignored and considered crazy, dangerous, seeing the people zip around with no protection at high speeds. No helmets, then, knowing of the number of accidents that happen in this city.

    After riding e-scooters I'm 100% convinced they're dangerous, they're clunkers, they have no maneuverability, and they're so heavy, you basically are a torpedo heading in a straight line.

    Still, they are an BA option when there's nothing else. But your chart shows the e-scooter has to be very, very close to the station, otherwise you're working for free.

    In Chicago, there are so many no-go areas for scooters. Basically, all the places fun places

    No-go in Red

    you would want to go, along the lake front, along the river, all of those are no-go. So you'll often find scooters parked alongside the no-go areas, and there they will stay, because it's not worth it to take them back up to a station.

    No-go in red 

    Thanks for your help